The Maven program, as it relates to endgame

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Posted by RenoScrabble (Ranked on Scrabble (Mplayer) Ladder) on January 14, 2001 at 13:03:34:

In Reply to: MAVEN posted by a.hey (Gold Member) on January 14, 2001 at 08:05:30:

First of all I would like to say that Maven's endgame, in my opinion, is flat out weak. I'd take Cappaletto, Edley, or Sherman's endgame before I'd take Maven's. Heck I'd trust my own endgame before Maven; I've seen it blow quite a few endgames myself, albeit some of them are complex. This is because often times Maven plays for equity, instead of ensuring a win. Humans, even players of the quality of randyhersom often make similar mistakes. Its one of the flaws of the program, that many live players possess.

However, I'm going to, in all likelihood, agree with Maven. To properly evaluate the rack, you must look at what Maven has. If his only tile left is a Q or something, than you should take as many points as possible, aka hot/tho. You need to delve into Maven's next play. This is the concept of endgame; to figure out your OPPONENT'S next play. This is the concept of endgame; one of the negative side effects of MPlayer. If he had only a 6 point play or something next turn, then toad/shoat would be some of the worst plays... I'll give the program enough credit that it doesn't blow simple endgames, only complex ones.

: I was playing a group game with Maven (set on highest level of Champion) this morning. For the last play of the game, I found myself with AOT? The score is me @ 140 something, them @ 110ish, 150ish, and 179ish. Here we go! I have a blank and what appears to be a cooperative board. I am hopeful that I can win this game in this final play--by collecting the points on the Mavens’ racks.

: The best I could find was TOAd with double word score and some parallel play extras collecting 19 points. I think, well, maybe? Right before I hit play, I click on hints to see what the best play would have been. Maven suggests THO or HOT for 12 and other plays worth less points (most of which are saving the blank). My second best play was sHOAT for double word score and making Aline with the A front hook that would have scored 18 points. I am curious as to why our beloved Maven did not offer up TOAd or sHOAT? (I still cannot believe there were no other plays worth more that allowed me to go out.)

: The game ends with me, myself, and I @ 168, Maven x3 @ 101, 148, and 177.

: Two questions…
: Is there a way to save a board like this for future reference?
: Why didn’t Maven come up with the 2 higher plays TOAd and sHOAT--along with other better plays?

: Thanks and enjoy your games, a.hey

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Re: The Maven program, as it relates to endgame QuagKid 02:04:16 1/15/01 (1)
- You need a position where Maven blows an endgame? RenoScrabble 20:18:29 1/15/01 (0)

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: First of all I would like to say that Maven's endgame, in my opinion, is flat out weak. I'd take Cappaletto, Edley, or Sherman's endgame before I'd take Maven's. Heck I'd trust my own endgame before Maven; I've seen it blow quite a few endgames myself, albeit some of them are complex. This is because often times Maven plays for equity, instead of ensuring a win. Humans, even players of the quality of randyhersom often make similar mistakes. Its one of the flaws of the program, that many live players possess. : However, I'm going to, in all likelihood, agree with Maven. To properly evaluate the rack, you must look at what Maven has. If his only tile left is a Q or something, than you should take as many points as possible, aka hot/tho. You need to delve into Maven's next play. This is the concept of endgame; to figure out your OPPONENT'S next play. This is the concept of endgame; one of the negative side effects of MPlayer. If he had only a 6 point play or something next turn, then toad/shoat would be some of the worst plays... I'll give the program enough credit that it doesn't blow simple endgames, only complex ones. : : I was playing a group game with Maven (set on highest level of Champion) this morning. For the last play of the game, I found myself with AOT? The score is me @ 140 something, them @ 110ish, 150ish, and 179ish. Here we go! I have a blank and what appears to be a cooperative board. I am hopeful that I can win this game in this final play--by collecting the points on the Mavens’ racks. : : The best I could find was TOAd with double word score and some parallel play extras collecting 19 points. I think, well, maybe? Right before I hit play, I click on hints to see what the best play would have been. Maven suggests THO or HOT for 12 and other plays worth less points (most of which are saving the blank). My second best play was sHOAT for double word score and making Aline with the A front hook that would have scored 18 points. I am curious as to why our beloved Maven did not offer up TOAd or sHOAT? (I still cannot believe there were no other plays worth more that allowed me to go out.) : : The game ends with me, myself, and I @ 168, Maven x3 @ 101, 148, and 177. : : Two questions… : : Is there a way to save a board like this for future reference? : : Why didn’t Maven come up with the 2 higher plays TOAd and sHOAT--along with other better plays? : : Thanks and enjoy your games, a.hey

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